Some EU citizens living in Britain who decided to seek permanent residency after the Brexit vote are being told to make arrangements to leave. A number of these people are among the 31,000 EU academics currently working in UK universities. Colin Talbot says many are alarmed and some have already decided to leave – putting the expertise of Britain’s universities in serious jeopardy.
“The UK’s university sector is one of our most valuable national assets,” Prof Brian Cox, the University of Manchester academic and TV presenter, told me last week. He argued that UK higher education “is a genuinely global industry generating billions of pounds in export earnings, one of the necessary foundations of our innovation-led economy and perhaps our strongest soft power asset; political and industrial leaders from all over the world were educated here in the UK.”
Which makes it all the more strange that the government should be – whether accidentally or deliberately – undermining them. Most of the Brexit commentary about UK universities has concentrated on issues of funding, research cooperation and students. Much less attention has been paid to what keeps universities running – academic staff – and what Brexit will mean for the 30,000-plus EU academics in the UK.
I arrived at a meeting a couple of weeks ago and noticed one of my academic colleagues was visibly distressed.
When I asked what was wrong, they said they’d just had a very alarming letter from the Home Office. Having lived and worked here for more than two decades (they’re a national of another EU country) they decided to play it safe after the Brexit vote and apply for leave to remain. Big mistake.
They received a threatening letter from the Home Office saying they had no right to be here and they should “now make arrangements to leave”. The letter was obviously wrong – they had every right to be here under existing UK law – but that didn’t lessen the emotional impact for my colleague, whose whole future was suddenly thrown into uncertainty.
I had read similar stories in the press, and wondered how many other academics might be affected, so I turned to Twitter to ask for any similar experiences. The tweet I posted asking for examples was retweeted – mostly by concerned academics – over 1,000 times. People started writing to me with cases and I began digging into the issue.
The first thing that struck me was the level of fear, anger and disgust – and in some cases resignation. I have disguised individual cases – that’s because few people are willing to speak openly, such is the degree of fear about what might happen after Brexit.
The impact on individuals
Some EU academics (along with others) who have been living and working legally in the UK for years decided, after June 23, that they should try to cement their position by applying for one or other of the various routes to permanent residency. The procedures are daunting and of Kafkaesque complexity – one form runs to 85 pages and requires forms of proof that make acquiring Catholic sainthood look simple. As a result many applications are failing – but it is the form of the rejection that is causing much concern. A typical letter from the Home Office says (in part):
“As you appear to have no alternative basis of stay in the United Kingdom you should now make arrangements to leave. If you fail to make a voluntary departure a separate decision may be made at a later date to enforce your removal…”
This appears to be a fairly typical ‘prepare to leave’ letter, variations on which have been sent to “failed” applicants – even though they are currently here perfectly legally.
Even more worryingly, the decision on whether to accept or reject these applications is based on the “Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 and Regulation 26 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006”, to quote the letter again. The latter will be repealed in the Great Repeal Bill planned by the government, which could rescind any ‘right to remain’ granted under existing law and regulations.
Brian Cox sums up the situation very well when he told me:
“We have spent decades – centuries arguably – building a welcoming and open atmosphere in our universities and, crucially, presenting that image to an increasingly competitive world. We’ve been spectacularly successful; many of the worlds finest researchers and teachers have made the UK their home, in good faith. A few careless words have already damaged our carefully cultivated international reputation, however. I know of few, if any, international academics, from within or outside the EU, who are more comfortable in our country now than they were pre-referendum. This is a recipe for disaster.”
Another academic colleague said: “As an academic I’m embarrassed and ashamed of [the] UK governments’ stance on EU citizens.”
One academic told me: “the Home Office is hedging its bets because we non-UK [academics] are now effectively hostages …”. A neuroscientist from the EU at a top UK university reacted with defiance: “For what is worth, I refuse to apply for a piece of paper [leave to remain] that I don’t need and won’t be valid after Brexit – when current law says I don’t need it. It’s just a certificate. They can stick their 85-page form up their arses.”
The level of anxiety is obvious: “I’m about to submit my permanent residency application. Any pointers from the rejections you’ve seen so far? Scary times ahead…”. Another said: “as an Irish citizen I am assuming the Ireland Act will continue to provide my right to be here. But… “
A policy specialist from Oxford said “people have been turned down for administrative reasons alone. The Home Office looks for any reason to say ‘no’ at the moment.” Or as another, retired, academic puts it, this is just “inhuman bureaucracy” at work.
How representative is all this? A recent survey of academics conducted by YouGov for the University and College Union (UCU) found that an overwhelming majority (90%) said Brexit will have a negative impact on UK higher education. Three-quarters (76%) of non-UK EU academics said they were more likely to consider leaving UK higher education. A third (29%) said they already know of academics leaving the UK, and over two-fifths (44%) said they know of academics who have lost access to research funding as a direct result of Brexit.
The impact on universities
UK universities are heavily dependent on academics from the EU. To cater for our global audience we need to attract the brightest and best and Europe is, unsurprisingly, a major source for such talent. Over 31,000 UK university academics come from the EU – sixteen percent of the total (all figures calculated from the Higher Education Statistics Agency data for 2014/15).
But this national figure underestimates just how important EU academics are to our top-rated universities. The London School of Economics has 38% EU academic staff. Other prominent London colleges – Imperial, King’s, University College London – have between a quarter and nearly a third. Oxford has 24% and Cambridge 22%. My own university, Manchester has 18% and most of the Russell Group of ‘research universities’ are in the top ranks of EU academic staff employers.
EU academics are equally important in the core subject areas that are vital to our long-term economic health. So areas like physics (26%), chemical engineering (25%), biosciences (22%), chemistry (21%) and IT (20%) are all heavily reliant on European talent.
So what?
Our global status isn’t, of course, just dependent on EU academics – UK experts are our bedrock (70%) – but the other 30% that come from the EU and the rest of the world are an important part of our global status.
Losing this talent – whether through demoralisation or deliberate design – would have catastrophic effects. As Brian Cox puts it: “Ministers must consider our global reputation before uttering platitudinous sound-bites for domestic consumption, and think much more carefully about how to ensure that the UK remains the best place in the world to educate and to be educated. [UK Universities] are everything the government claims it wants our country to become; a model for a global future.”
“The current rhetoric is the absolute opposite of what is required. The UK appears, from outside, to be increasingly unwelcoming and backward looking”.” They should be even more careful about the policies they enact and the way they are implemented.
The Home Office’s at best clumsy and at worse malicious handling of residency claims is causing huge distress and damage to our reputation. I am already hearing cases of EU nationals leaving, or planning to leave, because of the uncertain and unwelcoming future they now face. One academic lawyer acquaintance has already moved. We don’t know how many EU academics we’ll lose now, or in the future, as a result.
This post represents the views of the author and not those of the Brexit blog, nor the LSE. It first appeared in a slightly longer form at Colin Talbot’s blog.
Colin Talbot is Professor of Government at the University of Manchester.
Hang on a moment, while I recognise the distress caused by receiving such a letter, but are you suggesting the letter was sent in error? If so your headline is very inaccurate and not helping the aforementioned people who are clearly feeling anxious
The letter is a template. It was not sent in error.
The letter fails to recognise the currant legal status of the applicant. However the Home Office can not guarantee that they will not be deported at a later date – no one can.
I doubt the letters were sent in error: They were more likely sent deliberately and the home office couldn’t care less if the information in them is legally accurate – The point is to intimidate and scare. They send the letters to people with little power to fight the home office and expect the majority of recipients to just acquiesce and do as they’re told.
It’s the same tactic that debt collection agencies use and they have pretty much the same level of integrity as ‘our’ government does. (Possibly the debt collectors are good people at heart, just doing a job to pay the bills so deserve some slack though)
What this government is doing our reputation as a nation is disgusting and shameful. I have spent much of my 50+ years life building alliances and friendships with people from all corners of the EU. I have worked and lived in many EU countries and have seen at first hand the positive effect that the UK’s perceived tolerance and openness has had on its reputation overseas. Brexit has largely destroyed this in one fell swoop. And for what ? So that the “British” can remain tied to a pole on this little island ?
All because the Brits Do not want to Receive ANY Syrian refugees WHO They with their American brother Created in the first place…..
Do you mean we created the Syrian refugee crisis through our NON-intervention?
Right I remember clearly the question concerning Syrian refugees on the ballot paper.
The rhetoric coming from the government in the first few months following the referendum did nothing to allay EU nationals’ fears. Talk of cut-off points for accruing EU based rights of residence, downgrading the already acquired permanent residence status of EU nationals, introducing residency requirements akin to Tier 2, and tit-for-tat bargaining with British nationals abroad has left a lot of perfectly legal EEA nationals in the UK worried about their future. The explosion in applications from Europeans and their family members is testimony to that fear. Since the law changed in 2006, I must have lodged a handful of applications for permanent residence for EEA nationals – it was simply unnecessary, permanent residence was deemed to exist after 5 years exercise of Treaty rights and there was no threat to the individual’s right of residence. In the build-up to the referendum and particularly thereafter, the number of applications has gone through the roof. Best practice, as recommended by the Immigration Law Practitioners Association, is for EEA nationals and their family members to apply either for permanent residence or a residence card (as applicable) under existing legislation rather than wait for the introduction of any transitional arrangements, such as they may be. Dealing with the Home Office can be frustrating at times. Ensure you apply on the correct form with the correct evidence.
I also applied for the “leave” visa and was rejected, despite of the fact that I was legally working here for over 12 years. No matter what you provide to them, its just not enough! Also my mistake that I did not collect all the little papers along the years. Also, it does not look like the Home Office has qualified people processing the applications, to my amazement one of the rejection reasons was some education I did 12 years ago , I thought they only look at the last 5 years! Also my little 4 year old (Dutch) was rejected as he spent less than 5 years in the UK haha. I will definitely not waste my time to apply again, I am quite sure there are enough opportunities across the continent .With this attitude , I do not want to be here even if I was “approved”, simply because I fear a Greece 2.0 collapse.
It’s quite weird that they rejected your application. You know if you legally live here for 10 years they should give you IRTS even when you are not working? Maybe EU citizen apply another rule but it should not be more difficult.
Anyway I would suggest you to appeal rather than apply again (which cost you more), I mean, it’s not like you need it, but why not appeal since you already pay for first time. They won’t give the money back to you.
I am both deeply concerned and ashamed. We have a centuries tradition of welcoming academics from all over the world. It is what civilized countries do and it enriches society and culture.
I agree with you. After all, that’s the purpose of universities.
Move to a Scottish university, help us make Indyref2 work and stay. You are welcome here, as I have been made welcome and am sure will continue to be.
I agree. Scotland is very welcoming.
Canada too. Remember what Panofsky said about professionals leaving Germany in WW2: “Hitler shook the tree and we picked up the apples”.
The EUAcademics in Britain. ….surely should be SOME of the EU Academics….One of my academic colleagues was visibly distressed ……THEY….said…..there seems to be some sort of fact twisting or poor command of English!
You can use “they” for a single person so you can refer to them without making their gender known.
Frankly this seems like irresponsible scare-mongering to me. The most likely explanation here is that there are proforma letters, automatically machine-generated, for failed ILTR applications. It is hardly surprising that these letters assume the person has no other right to remain, and say they should leave, because until recently EU citizens would hardly bother applying for ILTR, since they could stay here anyway. The letter has not been adapted to reflect the fact that many EU citizens are now applying. I can completely understand why receiving such a letter would be very distressing, but this looks to me like an administrative snafu, not a government plot to deport all EU academics. Implying otherwise is really irresponsible.
David Robinson is right – people should apply, but also get guidance to ensure they are filling in the form correctly. The process is byzantine and I think deliberately complicated to make it harder. So hire a lawyer if necessary to go over the paperwork. Don’t give them any reason to reject you, if you are eligible for ILTR.
Imagine that after buying a car you receive a letter form the car manufacturer stating that you are not entitled to any form of guarantee as you did not match the intended sellers profile and are requested to hand the car back.
Something in writing has a legal status, send it error or not.
It is not at all reasonable for the letter to assume that an applicant has no other basis to remain. Automated letters should be checked extra carefully before being used. If they are being lazy, the letter could just be adapted to say ‘If you have no other right to remain…’. This is about the equivalent of you mistyping your PIN at a restaurant and them saying you stole the food because obviously you have no other means to pay.
I agree they should be checked, but we don’t inhabit an ideal world. Mistakes happen. We need to realise the difference between stupid bureaucratic error, and deliberate public policy.
Absolutely. No scaremongering! The intelligentsia are on a knife-edge in the UK/S but cool heads are needed.
If the letter was sent in error, it is doing an immense amount of damage. It should be addressed as the statement on it is false and is having a negative effect on EU citizens in the UK. I know six academics – mostly German – who have raised their children here in the past 20 years, and are planning to leave as this is no longer the country they came to.
“this looks to me like an administrative snafu, not a government plot to deport all EU academics. Implying otherwise is really irresponsible.”
Infinitely more irresponsible for a major government department to send such poorly worded letters in the first place. This is official information. You’re saying they don’t have the resources to use more than a single standard template wording? That they can’t be expected to bother to match it to the circumstances of the person applying? Patently absurd, and I wonder why your first instinct is to excuse the absurdity, rather than be angered on behalf of people who have tried to build their lives here and are suffering as a result of this (at best) monstrous incompetence.
This is appalling, but sadly not the first instance of such news. I find these reported cases deeply distressing, as I was always envisaging my future at an UK institution and have worked hard towards it for the last ten years.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/175845
This is just a standard wording HO uses on refusal. This is nothing new – such wording had been used well before the referendum, and even on a British citizen: e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-24918727 , (and another related case) http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-route-applications/eea2-rejected-no-proof-of-income-t147772.html .The question is why do you want to politicalized it and pretend it happening AS A RESULT OF Brexit?
The actual case is presented in this guardian article, It is a case of officious bureaucracy from the home office
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/29/german-neuroscientist-told-to-leave-uk-residency-application-rejected-monique-hawkins
I’m sorry but this article is beyond ridiculous! What’s happened is that EU citizens have reverted to using the formal immigration policy of this country that we (non-EU) academics have had to endure for a decade now! None of it is new and has been in place for a long time (mostly due to EU migration). Where was your article when my colleague had to pay £10,000 for him and his family to the home office for a two year work visa?? Selective blindness on your part — which is very poor for an academic!
Christina, the point is that these people moved here under the pretences of a freedom of movement policy that no one thought would be revoked. To have the rug pulled out from under your feet, quite literally, is quite an astonishing thing, don’t you think? Looking at it quite objectively, I don’t feel this article is ridiculous. The situation is alarming for those affected, but not, perhaps, for those who come from countries outside of the EU who would have expected to have to pay for the privilege of working/living here.
I live in Italy, married to an Italian. I sent off my request for Italian citizenship on the evening of 28 December, and got a reply on the morning of the 30th, inviting me for an interview the next week. The guy at the prefettura couldn’t have been nicer, we had a long talk about Brexit, Trump, and finished up comparing notes on Ken Loach films. It will still take a long time for my application to work through the system; but I was treated as a human being, as a potential Italian citizen, and made to feel welcome.
So HO workers are possibly illiterate and can’t even print the correct rejection letters. What else is new???
If this letter is just a template sent by a computer, why is nobody rectifying it? The truth is that EU citizens are now bargaining tools. The Home Office is more than able to reply with a better or more personalised letter. I am not keen on giving them excuses.
As a German EU immigrant who has been living in the UK for 19 years now, I fully agree with the above. It’s a terrible situation. Worst thing is that the 3 million EU immigrants in GB matter very little, as most of us have no GE voting power, so hold no real constituency influence. In my view, this is the true reason why the current government cares so little about us – we are no real political threat to them.
In the absence of any helpful commentary by the (hopelessly under funded) Home Office, I found the recent Guardian podcast on Rights Of EU immigrants very helpful.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/audio/2017/jan/16/the-rights-of-eu-citizens-in-the-uk-brexit-podcast
I moved to the UK in 2001 to study for a PhD in Politics and I start teaching in 2002 as part of my doctoral program. At the end of that academic year, I received a letter (as did all the teaching assistants) thanking me for the work I did and adding that “the fact that you are foreign allows our students to consider different view-points on the subjects we teach. For that too, we thank you”. I know that that paragraph is not send anymore.
I am now a business owner in the U.K. but I do not qualify for a leave to stay (I worked for my Embassy in London with diplomatic status, thus not as a resident) and I now face the prospect of having to leave but my business being allowed to stay…
This is what happens when emotion overtakes reason. If the UK leaves the EU, what happens to students, academics and other workers from the EU currently resident in the UK? What happens to UK students, academics and other workers from the UK currently resident in other countries in the EU?
Presumably the UK is supposed to re-establish contacts in the “Anglosphere” (the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) to balance. However these contacts have been replaced by European contacts in the last 40 years of EU membership. It is also a lot more difficult to fly to, for example, Washington than simply pop on a Eurostar train to Brussels.
“This is what happens when emotion overtakes reason.” This kind of scare-mongering is what happens when disappointed Remainers let their emotion overtake their reason. The letters are unfortunate, but also clearly wrong. As for the future, nobody can ever be certain about anything. But it currently seems highly unlikely that anybody already here will be forced to leave, regardless of what those letters say, partly due to human decency and partly out of fear of retaliation against British nationals in the EU. It also seems certain that some unknown but non-zero number of EU academics will choose to leave of their own accord for a variety of reasons, and both this kind of erroneous letter and this kind of scare-mongering interpretation by Remainers can be expected to slightly increase that number. However the main threat to the excellence of British Universities will presumably come not from kicking out current EU academics, but from refusing to let new ones in, depending on the precise details of post-Brexit immigration policy in about two years’ time, but not depending on erroneous letters being sent out at present. Meanwhile I reckon those EU academics have a lot less to worry about than I do, as an Irish person in danger of becoming homeless if currently affordable Dublin rents become unaffordable as a result of an influx of wealthy financial service workers from the City of London to Dublin’s Financial Services Centre as a result of Brexit, which is probably a far more realistic threat than the scare-mongering one presented in this blog.
The UK doesn’t need academics. As long as we are educated to a point we can read The Sun and Daily Mail we can continue on our expressway to one party fascism.
I think just being able to read the headline will be enough…..
One small way to help is to sign and share this petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/172343
It does not address all the issues highlighted in the article, but it is a good step forward. The government has already replied with the usual wishy-washy rubbish that does not even address the point of the petition, so it is important that the petition goes to parliament for discussion.
What can we do to try to stop this sort of thing happening? Whatever people voted for this can’t have been what the majority of people wanted. I am very anxious for my friends from the EU and for my daughter and her generation.
All this is highly illegal until article 50 is properly been triggered and approved on both sides the EU and the UK.
So what is Europe doing about that right now? Or are they trying to secure their financial deals primarily disregarding basic human rights and treaties which have been mutually signed.
What message are we giving the young generations? First we educate them not to repeat the mistakes from the past and then there is one rule for some and another for the rest of the people.
Where is Germany that usually likes to be the strong voice in the European Community when rules are not followed?
Are they too worried about a good deal with UK because they have bought the majority of English Companies through the years and now they are afraid to miss on financial benefits?
Every Country including the normal people have been contributing to the EU just to be taken for a ride by the first one who is having a tantrum.
Shame on all the Politicians and people in charge who are supposed to care for the people. You are a disappointment to young people and to those who will come afterwards.
You are a dishonour to the good men and women who have worked and fought hard to achieve this level of freedom and peace for the first time in centuries.
You are just selfish and do not deserve any respect from the people who have sustained you.
There are still so many credible and dedicated people across Europe as well as throughout the World who spend their life to leave a better place for our children and your children too..but I think this concept is too uncomfortable and difficult for you to grasp.
I have no problem with these foreign nationals leaving – that will leave more room for British nationals to take these jobs.
I do not usually rise to stupidity but Joe Bloggs grow up you like most of the out voters without a brain will be the first to scream and shout when your wages are cut, and British finances plummet. I stupid comment that is of no help to anyone. For the record I am British living in France and leaving the EU will go down in History as one of the biggest blunders of the century.
Jo,
Unless ypu are being sarcastic, please tell me what your PhD is in and where you have failed to get a university teaching job, or a job as a doctor or consultant. There must be thousands of them on the dole who are British because all these ‘forrin’doctors & lecturers work for less than minimum wage obviously?
Having worked with an immigration solicitor I know Lee Jones is right about the pro forma letters. These and the 85 page form and associated bureaucracy are designed for non EU citizens, who have been faced with this nightmare of paperwork for years. The authorities seem to turn down the first application for the most trivial of reasons as a matter of course, making lengthy and expensive appeals necessary while the applicant is under threat of being removed any time the Home Office feels like doing so.
Friedrich, I don’t know what good it’ll do UK academics to establish more US contacts. Our universities are being hacked apart at the roots. Nobody wants to hire actual professors; it’s all sweatshop adjuncts and lecturers teaching 700 kids a semester, or a few wealthy kids on starvation wages. Travel money’s drying up, entire departments being shut down. Science money is, of course, shutting off. The general program is to replace university libraries with one book about a particular Mediterranean zealot.
Such a mess. If the home office are sending out letters with essentially the wrong information, the should be held to account on this, they should not be giving people the wrong information, if they are, as the most trusted source, they need a kick up the backside.
It’s ironic that now in the wake of Brexit, EU citizens, who would have otherwise lived and worked in the UK, then maybe moved, maybe not, are applying for residency and the same applies for Ex-Pats in the EU, who are now applying for residency where they are living, whereas before, they weren’t bothered as we were all just EU citizens, no different from being from NY State and moving to Florida. Now, move 100 miles and you are an alien.
If I want to apply for residency in NL it’s going to cost me about 1000 euros, up to now, I’ve hopped between NL and the UK, worked and paid tax in both countries. Now I better start saving, given the choice between NL and the UK, i choose NL, but that’s not what it says on my passport.
Why aren’t the Academic institutes getting together and taking legal action against Home Office? They are giving false information and causing distress and confusion.
‘what keeps universities running – academic staff’- I think you will find that ‘non-academic’ staff play a fairly major role in the running of Universities. Will non Uk EU citizens working as Bedders, Porters, Chefs etc. have to go through this shit too? Please include them in your protest.
Just want to say that the government is also using retired university staff, amongst many, who live in France as pawns in their bl**dy stupid exit game with the EU……………
At least France is fairly processing applications for Carte de Sejour for those of us who apply, want to stay part of the EU.
I’m not going to give you my name or my email, because to be honest, this question is going to make me very unpopular. And as a brown woman academic, that is doubly problematic.
If you’re an honest and fair-minded person, you’ll take it seriously anyway. Why are your EU colleagues more worthy of such hand-wringing over immigration law when your American (South & North), Asian, African and Aussie/NZ colleagues weren’t? Particularly your Asian and African colleagues? Are you sure colour doesn’t come into it? Why did you not see fit to speak for them when they are put through the UK immigration wringer?
Many see Brexit as a racist, nativist response, but perhaps you need to consider that the EU is also racist and nativist? Especially when it turns so many millions of refugees away from its borders after having helped create them in the first place.
Here, here.
I read your article on scales of governance and how this relates to Brexit and the UK left. It was really excellent. I hope to read more of your work.
best
We are supposed to live in a country which operates under the rule of law. The UK has, in principle, unfettered right to determine the length of stay of non-EU nationals. It does not have any power to intimidate EU nationals with the false and unlawful threat that of being forced to leave the country. The ‘Leave’ campaign told immigrants from non-EU countries that they would have better opportunities to remain in the UK if it leaves the European Union because everyone will be assessed on an equal basis. It was an obvious lie which many non-EU immigrants naively believed. Years ago, the government had set as an apparently unachievable target net-immigration of less than 100,000 people per year, when far greater numbers were being admitted from non-EU countries alone. Since the Brexit vote, the new regime considers itself to have the mandate to achieve the 100,000 target. Make no mistake, the position of non-EU migrants is now more insecure than before the Brexit vote. But regardless, if we live in a country which operates under the rule of law, you should be as outraged by what’s happening as the rest of us.
You do live in a country with laws, laws that are racist and discriminatory. Nations tend to be that way, discriminatory.
What the Leave campaign tells you and what you chose to believe is neither here nor there. Its the UKs laws that allow them to secure their borders against anyone they please.
As for non-EU migrants having a more insecure future, again no. That was already the case before Brexit was even on the horizon. Arbitrary changes to the time to residency, visa fees and equally arbitrary reasons for refusal. No one took note, or protested.
You know this old chestnut see if it fits: When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
Thanks for replying, No. I agree that we need to stick with facts, not beliefs. So what’s your legal argument for EU migrants not having, at this point, the unfettered entitlement to live and work in the UK; given that the UK is a Member of the European Union until it leaves, and it hasn’t so far even given a “Section 50” notice that it intends to leave? What’s your legal argument for these letters sent by the Home Office, which have been reported in the media for many months now, not being unlawful harassment and intimidation by the British Government?
One other question. I was surprised in your original post that you said, “as a brown woman academic”. It shocked me. What do you say is the connection between your skin colour and/or gender with the argument you put forward? I would be truly astounded (and appalled) if your skin colour or gender is relevant to anybody who has argued here against the treatment of EU-national academics.
To the first question, until they trigger article 50 and leave the union you have the right to remain as far as I know. But if they disagree, talk to a lawyer, exactly as I would’ve had to do and my American friend did have to do.
And about the second. you’re having a laugh mate! Walk a few miles in my shoes.
I’m really not laughing. You haven’t put forward any reasons why your skin colour or gender has any relevance to the matter of rights to live and work in the UK of EU nationals.
Your reply also implies that you believe I am an impacted non-UK, EU national. That’s incorrect: I am a British citizen.
You have acknowledged that to the best of your knowledge EU citizens have the right to remain in the UK [at least?] until the UK has left the EU. That’s a clear distinction from the law as it applies to non-EU citizens.
So I’m struggling to understand your case. Is it that it that the EU’s freedom of movement among Member states is ipso facto a racist act?
Is it that it that the EU’s freedom of movement among Member states is ipso facto a racist act? Yes, along with its exclusion of people that aren’t European.
There was nothing in what I said that I suggested that I thought you were an EU national. I know that there are plenty UK nationals that feel the same way and are awfully angry with the other half (or thereabouts). The trouble is they’ve taken very little trouble to find out why the vast majority voted the way they do. They’ve fallen to very easy generalisations about racism and bigotry etc. I can accept that there ARE some bigoted people in the UK, but not that they are half the population.
The other part is the claim of ignorance among leave voters. This is downright silly. A very big proportion of traditional Labour voters voted to leave, these are usually the least bigoted and best informed of UK voters. They are engaged, informed and what’s more, ethical. At least that’s the UK working class I know. Much of the media speaks of them as if they are buffoons, its galling.
Also, it is a bit ridiculous to claim that having unpopular opinions does not cost POC more. It’s very hard to have any opinion of mine taken seriously in academia, much less one that people will use to brand me as racist as a UKIPite.
Pardon me, I realised I did imply that you might be an EU citizen by saying ‘you have the right to remain…etc’. I didn’t mean to. I do owe you that apology since you’ve been the most level-headed person that’s responded to me so .
But really, read the rest of my comments, perhaps you’ll get a sense for where I’m coming from. Nations are already discriminatory, predominantly white nations more so. They also have a history of imperialism & colonialism against non-white nations. If there is a union that allows unhindered migration among predominantly white nations, while brutally excluding non-white nations, the union is racist. This should be obvious, no?
Now you say well, the UK will remain that even outside the EU. Yes, but that’s its own choice, at least it has the potential to determine its own destiny. And it isn’t forced to bend to the will of the economically most dominant nation in the EU, which happens to be Germany.
Dear No
The EU is a unique project, that has its roots in the war-torn history of Europe. It gives the citizens of its member state rights of movement that to my knowlege, no other regional union of countries does. Yes, it is new to have such regional agreements between countries, but there is nothing stopping other sets of geographically close countries to come to such agreements, if they so wish and to agree on rules of residence for those who come to live there from outside that regional union.
The UK has decided it does not want to participate in the EU any longer, without giving indications how to deal with the removal of rights of residence. That just causes confusion. If the UK had made more comprehensive plans for leaving the EU before the referendum, EU citizens could have prepared for their removal of rights. But the UK didn’t and now yoy have ‘ hand-wringing’.
The war-torn history of Europe? Wasn’t that a ‘World’ war? What’s so special about Europe? And quit this pablum about geographically close countries, the last member states to the EU were close, and yet weren’t allowed in for the longest time. Why? Turkey is close, what about Turkey? Its even in NATO, the EU continually ships its ‘refuse’ immigrants there? Why not Turkey?
Yes, so indeed, the EU is a unique project of attempting to create an uber-imperialist union. Its still imperialism even if its instruments aren’t wars and militaries but economics instead. Ask the EU member states that have seen the sharp end of this imperialism, Spain, Portugal, Greece?
My best hope is that some UK residents decided that their ethics didn’t allow them to continue to be part of this uber imperialist project. It’s a damn shade better than your fear that they are racist! Despite the fear mongering of UKIP, there are still I believe ethical people in the UK. You’ll find some of them at the Trump protests holding banners that say all refugees welcome here. Nothing I’ve ever heard from the EU!
As for rights of residence, what’s to indicate? The UK leaves the union and all it obligations to it? Why did you think you were going to be accorded special treatment? Because you’re accustomed to it?
Hi No,
I am glad you said to “Ask the EU member states that have seen the sharp end of this imperialism, Spain, Portugal, Greece?”
I am a brown Spanish citizen. I mention my skin colour, because you seem to think it is quite important.
I do not see the EU as imperialistic at all. In fact, I think Spain greatly profited from being in the EU, as following the end of the Franco dictatorship, Spain was in a very bad shape economically. The EU has actually allowed it to shrug off its dictatorial roots, and while it is not doing as well as the Northern states, I think more of the blame lies at the feet of Spanish politicians, who are well known for being extremely corrupt.
As for how the EU is apparently racist:
Yes, it is true there was some racism regarding reluctance to allow Turkey in, but I think you should recognise that the fear of Turks joining the EU was a big reason why some British people voted to leave.
Freedom of movement is not a racist scheme because it relies on the idea of reciprocity. I am a Spaniard of Indian origin, but as an EU citizen I can easily move to anywhere in the EU, whereas I need to get a visa just to go back to India to visit my grandparents.
The reason why up to now EU citizens have not had to jump through the same hoops as the non-EU citizens is because of this idea of reciprocity. Any Brit can move to Spain, but a Brit cannot easily move to any non-EU country. Therefore, it makes sense that EU citizens would have the same opportunity to move to the UK effortlessly.
Rather than getting angry at the EU for the draconian hoops non-EU citizens need to jump through in the UK, you should blame the UK Government, who are capable of making your immigration process easier, if they so wished .
Well said, Anj. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.
There’s just one particular point I’d like to take up: you said, “Yes, it is true there was some racism regarding reluctance to allow Turkey in”.
Literally speaking, of course you’re right “there was some racism”. There always is. I think there was a fear of Turkey joining the EU, and that was due to several factors:
– The size of Turkey’s population and the fear of how many people might be mobilised to migrate to the UK.
– The fear of Islam (partly of jihadists, partly of the religion of Islam becoming dominant, partly because of a feeling that the UK has too many people). These are all fears that are barely discussed rationally in the media or by politicians, and I think that (no plan, no recognition) why a lot of people pulled the Brexit “emergency cord”. So I’m going to give a point of view here:
—
– Fear of jihadists from or entering through Turkey: objectively, many more people in UK have been killed by the IRA than by Islamic terrorists, and most UK terrorists are “home-grown”. But like the name suggests, the prospect terrifies people.
– Religion of Islam becoming dominant: while Christianity is becoming more and more moderate and people generally are losing religion altogether , Islam is seen to become more and more fundamentalist. And in Europe (as opposed to America) followers of Islam are often ‘Conservatives’: they are seen to be implementing their own justice system under ‘Sharia law’, engage in the illegal practice of female genital mutilation, favour the killing of apostates and homosexuals, do not hold equal rights for women, etc. And (rather like British abroad!) they often are seen not to integrate: to reside in their own neighbourhoods, dislike non-Muslims (eg. would not suffer their offspring to marry one), have separate religious schools that eschew science for religious teachings, and all of that.
– Feeling of the UK being “full”: this reason is about numbers of people, not about religion. It is often spoken of in terms of NHS, hospital beds, school places, services; and is surely exacerbated by the actual level of immigration having increased dramatically in the past decade or so. (The main weakness here is in the failure of government to plan/provide/fund an appropriate level of infrastructure (housing, school places, hospital beds, etc) and allow immigrants who contribute to public services to carry the can for government’s omission.)
—
Of course, in spite of the claims of Campaign Fear (that’s the Brexiteer’s “Campaign Fear”!), Turkey has no chance of entering the EU any time soon; because it hasn’t aligned itself with the democratic, legislative and economic prerequisites of Membership (eg. operating within the rule of law, harmonising domestic trade legislation, and running a balanced economy).
Anyway, that’s my aside about Turkey; but all the things you said I agree with.
Hi Anj,
Speaking only to you here. How much racism is ok? An amount that doesn’t affect you personally? And it becomes not ok when it starts to affect you? Bit selfish no?
Is the level of racism that cause Doctors without Borders to stop taking EU money ok? That cause thousands to drown ok? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-leaders-killing-migrants-by-neglect-after-cutting-mediterranean-rescue-missions-a6988326.html
The anonymous brown sister is overlooking a key historic event on the late 1960s which was Tory government setting up very stringent regulations for the until then open immigration from the ex-colonies, in another case of sensitivity to racism at home. THE EU HAS NEVER IMPOSED QUOTES ON IMMIGRATION TO ANY MEMBER, as Englanders should know very well.
Besides, EU academics and researchers in long term projects have been attracted and worked here in good faith AND possibly are now going to be asked to pay to acquire a right of residency that was allowed to them under EU legislation. The abolition of that legislation in the UK isn’t of their doing, AND THEY SHOULD BE GRANTED, as other EU citizens, right to remain regardless
AND BLAMING THE EU FOR UK ACTIONS
Are you making my point? These are UK academics ready to speak for their EU colleagues instantly, after having ignored the issues of their non-EU particularly Asian and African colleagues for years before that.
How is your good faith or lack of participation in decision-making relevant? If the EU has a clause to leave the EU and the UK triggers it, they can ask EU citizens to leave. That’s how nations work! If you don’t like national boundaries, and I don’t, there’s good reason not, work on that!
No> Are you making my point?
I didn’t realise you’d got a point that I could make for you.
No> If the EU has a clause to leave the EU and the UK triggers it, they can
No> ask EU citizens to leave.
But they haven’t.triggered it. And even when and if they do, it will be at least two years before they leave. In the mean time, as the British government has itself acknowledged, every last dot and comma of every EU law and responsibility applies to the UK.
You might extend me the same courtesy that I extend you. That’s a reply to Francesca. But maybe you won’t. Par for the course.
I believe the article is deceiving:
1) The letter has been sent in error.
2) All academics and other highly skilled experts will always be welcome in the UK. These are clearly individuals that are settled in the UK and are contributing to its development (they work, they pay taxes, they pay NI, they speak English, etc.)
Those that will be kicked out should be those foreigners that are being a burden for the UK: the unemployed, convicted criminals, those on benefits, etc.
Jay, you are mistaken. I am an academic, I have studied, worked and paid my dues for nearly 19 years, yet I am having trouble getting permanent residence because of the Byzantine system that has been put in place. In fact, they gave introduced retroactive requirements a few years ago (with no announcement, consultation, debate or anything) which make it particularly difficult for people like me (who never asked for or received benefits and are married to UK citizens) to get PR. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this government will treat people fairly. They are already making our lives a misery – do you really think that will change after Brexit?
If the letters were sent by mistake, how do you account for cases like these being documented in national newspapers for many months now? You need to take in all the evidence before reaching a decision about whether the claim that it was a mistake… actually on the part of the victim… is credible.
Im appalled by what is happening. We have been chocking off the intake of foreign students for several years, India in particular. Now the Home Office is on the offensive again, this time against staff. This puts us on the same spectrum as the US: foreigners keep out. The soft power implications are stunning. Graduates from UK universities become geads of state and CEOs, the world over. We will reap this harvest in 10-20 years time. What a senseless destruction of a golden goose
I came to the UK from Australia 29 years ago and have been here legally ever since. I gained British citizenship and now hold a British passport so have a perfect right to remain but I have no desire to stay in a country I no longer recognize. I am currently searching for European jobs.
Tol comments that state the letters are a mistake and if we would just fill in the forms correctly, all would be well, I would like to stress the following: in the 16 years that I have been living in the U.K., I never had to worry about residency. We never kept any ‘proof’ as it just didn’t enter our minds. In fact, that was the main reason we went to the UK; instead of Australia or the US (where we also had job offers). It simple didn’t make any difference to us whether we moved to another university town in Holland or to Cambridge. We put our stuff in a van, rented a place and went to work. To suddenly be asked to provide evidence to be granted a document that ratifies a right we already have is utter contempt to the contributions we have made to British society. To send letters (by mistake or otherwise) that tells us to leave is rubbing salt in wounds. I am also angry at the EU for not doing anything. We came to the UK on a Marie Curie grant – highly desirable with the specific aim of knowledge transfer and international collaboration. Is the EU going to provide re-settlement grans for those academics stranded in the UK due to, what turned out to be false promises of free movement and knowledge exchange within Europe? I don’t want to be stuck on an island, I don’t want to have to apply for a visa and I don’t want my children being treated as foreigners in their country of birth.
As a family, we have no real desire to stay in the UK and are actively looking to leave. It’s a pity, as we love where we live and we love our jobs, but the future is too uncertain here and we do not feel welcome anymore.
1984
So, Ralph Dahrendorf would not have been welcome. No Karl Popper either. I’m sure readers can come up with others.
Clearly the notice to vacate is poorly worded for a start.
Secondly the most reasonable cause of action is to clearly promite, and accept residency status for university staff of lengthy tenure at a minimum.
Thirdly in passing, this was the will of the british people but i suspect it was the ordinary citizen rather than the academic who voted yes to brexit… in any case the people have spoken.
Its entirely possible that letters are being sent out by brexit nay sayers within the govt to cause uoroar over brexit.but that’s pure speculation and seens a little unlikely.
Brexit doesnt have to be this poorly implemented but is it sabotage or incompetence..
I’ll leave you to decide.
just cancelled any cooperation with UK companies as payment is not secure and as contracts with non-UK companies are not binding for UK companies (lower standard than working with Russian, Chinese or US companies)
a friend of mine will close his facilities in the UK (most of the employees are UK locals) and bring it back to the continent. Risk of non UK EU employees beeing harrassed by local authorities is too high
I’ve read about these kind of cases for months now: it’s utterly, utterly repugnant, and obviously illegal – perhaps even criminal intimidation. Why aren’t employers like the LSE, with some financial resource, supporting this kind of case being taken to court to prevent it happening and to seek punitive measures against the perpetrators?
Hi, we are both UK nationals and we left permanently in 2012. We could list many reasons why, but probably best summed up with we didn’t like the way things were going. It seems we were proven right with the referendum result. While we are not in academia, we do have 5 degrees between us, I work as a highly skilled technical professional and my wife owns her own business.
We are glad we left, for us and our children it was the right decision and we have no plans to ever return to the UK.
People are going to have to make some pretty tough decisions now about staying or leaving, it’s good to draw up a list noting positives vs. negatives and see which is longer. Mentally, I think we’d already left for some years before the physical move.
I cojld go on, but a brain drain of lots of skilled people will be just one of the unintended consequences and own goals caused by brexit. If you decide to stay, good luck – I think you’ll be needing it!
A completely deceitful article
an EU citizen applies for a non-existent ILTR, and gets a default rejection letter, because the system was not built to handle applications from EU citizens. Proves nothing – just a silly scare story, it’s almost certain the same letters would have been sent 2 years ago if an EU citizen applied for ILTR
I think it is time this is brought to the attention of the EU Commission (probably it has already). Furthermore, I think a class action suit is in order to challenge the UK Govt over this in the ECJ. Of course in due course the British Govt wants to unscrew itself from that judicial body, but while UK has not actually left, it is still subject to EU law. The actions by the home office are clearly a breach of all EU principles: rights of family life, freedom of movement, etc. A class action will send a strong signal to the UK, that this kind of behaviour will not stand pre-brexit and post-brexit. If the UK wants concessions from the EU (and clearly it wants a lot of concessions, it has been living for decades off all the concessions the EU granted) than the least thing the UK should o is show some respect to EU citizens.
I was a UK academic who had health problems, but I didn’t notice one person care whilst I was at home losing 8 years of my life when I could have been out there working. It’s always about your rights and one-sided arguments.
Why does a friend from Derby Uni have NO publications but we are more than happy to grant her a green card and now her boyfriend too. Ridiculous.
Just to clarify, we care about our government behaving like mafia thugs, intimidating lawful residents. From your description, it seems you had health problems which were the fault of no-one. So that’s true, as a public matter, I don’t care… I wouldn’t expect anybody to care if I were similarly afflicted.
What are you saying about green cards? Are you sure you’ve got the right country? Britain doesn’t have “green cards”. Too much TV?
A quote from Home Office would’ve made article feel less skewed. From my experience, they’re usually q happy to give one – even if it’s an annoyingly banal one. Thing is, if it appears a writer hasn’t tried to get an alternative interpretation of events as reported by ‘a friend’, some readers – ok, me – may wonder if the writer’s opinions have pre-judged the investigation somewhat.
How would your feeling of skew in the article be fixed by a banal letter from the Home Office? If I were to make a call it would be for a JPG of the letter sent to the LSE academic(s) to be published on this page; particularly as other media articles from credible outlets have not done that; and there are quite few media who have taken up these cases.
What about the thousands of British who live in sunny Spain and just LOVE the healthcare system here? And they are no academics, mind you. Would it be right to deport them? So far, this government has told them not to worry, they can stay and enjoy free healthcare (though I am not sure where they pay their taxes). But if emotion takes over here —and us Spaniards are prone to it in politics— what will happen?
This is a completely different matter. This scandal which this article is about, is that prior to Brexit, EU citizens have the inalienable right to live and work in the UK. But in spite of that, some EU citizens who have taken the step of applying for citizenship or permanent residency have been told – illegally – by the Home office that they had no right to be here and they should “now make arrangements to leave”. Even though UK is still a Member of the EU. Even though it has not even officially signalled its intention to leave.
Post Brexit, rights for EU citizens living in the UK, and rights for UK citizens living elsewhere in the EU, are completely up for grabs. Theresa May has said ad tedium many times that she would like to do a deal to allow every EU citizen currently in the EU to stay. But the wise will guess that however willing the EU is to adopt this policy, the UK government will attach strings before adopting. I suppose they’ll have to prove they have a job, maybe a particular class of job, maybe for a certain length of time, maybe prove some kind of arbitrary “settlement” condition… whatever happens, we have learned that the UK government is a wolf in sheep’s clothing (to say the least).
> I suppose they’ll have to prove they have a job, maybe a particular class of job, maybe for a certain length of time, maybe prove some kind of arbitrary “settlement” condition…
So to put my point as bluntly as I can: Why is this a problem? This is how you treat all other immigrants. And how other countries treat all other immigrants too. Why should EU citizens be treated differently? It would be racist to treat them differently.
My goodness, what will it take to prise the wrong end of this stick from your vice-like grip??? The problem (as you call it) is that the UK entered into an agreement with countries of the EU on the basis “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine.”… “we’ll let your citizens come to our country if you let our citizens into yours”. It’s not racist: it’s an agreement, agreed in law. It’s an agreement that a group of countries made together about the movement of people, finances, goods and services. It’s a group which has expanded many times to take in more countries, and each of those accession countries has had to agree to the requirements of Membership and has received the reciprocal benefits in return. Not every country has wanted to join the group. But Britain, which is a Member, must obey the rules until the day that it leaves. What is so difficult about this to understand?
The UK doesn’t have such a reciprocal arrangement with the USA or Australia or Belarus or India or Ghana (to take a selection from different continents), so their citizens have no automatic right to live and work in their country and UK citizens have no automatic right to live in theirs. That’s not racist. Do you say it is racist that I’m not automatically allowed to go and work in China?
🙂 it will take a recognition that this selective hand-wringing for EU citizens by UK HE is racist.
You’re right when you say that the UK has to abide by the rules until it remains in the union. I have already conceded that. If the UK challenges your right to remain, go see a lawyer, just like many other non EU people have to do when they deal with UK immigration.
If you’ve chosen to stay quiet about this kind of behaviour towards non-EU citizens, I’m asking what motivates your need to speak for EU citizens?
As for your asking for special concessions for EU citizens after Brexit, that they should have a right to remain without having to show they have a job, etc, etc. There’s another problem there. A few other things you might want to think about.
>Andi : it’s not racist: it’s an agreement, agreed in law.
I’m amused, are you saying that there are no and have never been racist laws? People are bigotted, its laws and agreements and treaties that are racist. Racism is a systemic thing…
Consider then that the EU may be racist: i.e. systematically excludes through the medium of laws, people who are seen as belonging to one or another race.
Who was invited into the EU? What is similar between the countries invited into the EU and the UK and different between these and other countries? Indeed why are there no reciprocal agreements between the countries that the UK previously colonised? Why restrict freedom of goods, people to only being within rich white imperialist nations? Basically why these and why not those?
Ask a few questions of yourself beyond the obvious pablum you’re fed. Hold yourself to a higher standard. I doubt that you will though.
I keep trying to bring the discussion to the topic of this page, and you keep branching out to other topics. You say, “are you saying that there are no and have never been racist laws?” but you can’t hang every racist law that has ever existed upon the UK blatantly, illegally telling EU citizens “now make arrangements to leave”. You say, okay, they should get a lawyer like everybody else. They shouldn’t have to!! There is no case of doubt to argue. It’s a malicious act of the British Government.
So no, I’m not saying there have never been racist laws: clearly there have. And I’m also going to stick my neck out here and suggest that pretty much all the racist bigots in the UK were supporters of the Leave campaign. The inclusive, internationalist people are in the Remain camp. That’s at the heart of the disagreement.
The EU is a more-or-less geographical grouping of nations who sign-up to certain values (including democracy, rule of law, judicial independence, etc, etc). Do you say that the USA is intrinsically racist? It’s just a better integrated group of similar nature. Do you say AFTA is intrinsically racist? It’s just a grouping which has so far not developed into a political union.
You say, “why are there no reciprocal agreements between the countries that the UK previously colonised?”. Very loosely, it’s something like asking why players for Manchester United aren’t free to play for Chelsea. When a player signs for Manchester United they are committing themselves to the interests of that Club. The Club may arrange some loan agreement with Chelsea if there is agreement. The UK has joined the EU Customs Union, which means it commits itself to a central mechanism for agreeing trade deals which bind not an individual nation but all its Member nations. And it has done so. Most recently with Canada, before that South Korea, and so on. Why does it have to be like that? Because it can be against the interests of Manchester United (its board, its shareholders, supporters and other players) if one player sometimes plays for Chelsea. And it can be against the interests of the EU (its Member states) for the UK to negotiate a side-deal with other nations.
‘No’ asked> Who was invited into the EU?
‘No’ asked> Why restrict freedom of goods, people to only being within rich white imperialist nations?
I really hate it that you keep bringing skin colour into this. I really couldn’t give a rats arse whether you are black, white or green with orange dots. It’s *you* who seems to care about my skin colour! London voted strongly to Remain in the European Union, and it is one of the most cosmopolitan places on Earth. The fact is, this is a regional grouping. There is a similar group currently ‘under construction’ in Africa “The African Union” from a tripartite agreement of three trade groups (COMESA, EAC and SADC). It also aims to have a Customs Union. Do you say this is racist too?
You asked who invited the Members… Maybe nobody: countries apply and there’s a procedure to follow… some 50 or so harmonisation criteria to fulfil and agreement needed by all existing Members before admission. It’s not a Club for rich nations: you’re absolutely wrong there. You want to tell me Bulgaria is a rich country? Many of the recent accession countries are from the former Soviet block and states from the former Yugoslavia.
You told me, “As for your asking for special concessions for EU citizens after Brexit…”
and asked, “I’m asking what motivates your need to speak for EU citizens?”
I didn’t call for any such thing. Show me what I said which you took to mean that. I am talking about the current situation. And neither, by the way, do I seek any any special treatment for the UK after Brexit. My motivation? I am European far, far more than I am British. Not until I hear news of a rampaging mob of the last of all UKIP supporters baying around Nigel Farage’s house decrying him for their impoverishment will I be satisfied that the UK repents of its insane decision to go with ugly and small-minded, self interested nationalism.
🙂 I doubt that you’re going to be able to think about what I am saying, you’re invested in a certain viewpoint. I’ll just put a few things here that amuse me.
> “I really hate it that you keep bringing skin colour into this. I really couldn’t give a rats arse whether you are black, white or green with orange dots.”
Its kind of irrelevant what you think, its how white imperialist nations behave.
>”Do you say that the USA is intrinsically racist?”
How is a nation built on the back of slavery not intrinsically racist?
>”ou say, “why are there no reciprocal agreements between the countries that the UK previously colonised?”. Very loosely, it’s something like asking why players for Manchester United aren’t free to play for Chelsea.”
So you basically admit, its an us versus them scenario? White imperialist nations versus non-white oppressed nations?
>” And I’m also going to stick my neck out here and suggest that pretty much all the racist bigots in the UK were supporters of the Leave campaign.”
See I have more faith in your co-countrymen and women than you do..I believe they did because they didn’t want to remain in an imperialist union.
Have a good night! 🙂
Do you really? Consider why the Brexiteers voted Leave.
– Because they hate immigration. They hate Angela Merkel taking in refugees fleeing from war and the suggestion (in spite of UK’s opt-out) that they should take refugees themselves. They hate Polish people coming to Britain with their despicable work ethic and willingness to graft for less money than they themselves are willing to do. They hate immigrants using public services, even though they pay more in taxes than they take out.
– Because they hate EU bureaucracy and red tape? That’s just an excuse to not appear racist. When people are asked what EU law they most want to see repealed they don’t have a clue. They either answer nothing or talk about bananas (a lie during the referendum campaign by Boris Johnson).
– Because so much of their money goes to the EU? They know that’s nonsense: It’s on their tax statement: they were completely unmoved when the £350k/week battle-bus claim was destroyed.
– To regain sovereignty: sure, they want that… and we know what ‘that’ means because we’ve heard it every day since the referendum from the new Brexit Government: it means they do not believe in shared sovereignty but that every other country should bestow upon Britain the homage and gifts (have cake and eat it) Britain ‘rightly deserves’. You talk about imperialism? Theresa May said just the other day that she wants Britain and the USA to ‘lead together’ again’. And the people who voted Brexit to regain sovereignty are too stupid to see that every cooperation cedes sovereignty… nothing more so than membership of NATO which commits them to collective defence (“an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies”).
Have I missed anything?
You asked: “How is a nation built on the back of slavery not intrinsically racist?”
Because the policy of slavery was not a pre-requisite of the Act of Union. They are separate issues.
Isn’t your preoccupation with historic slavery blinding you from present day realities? Do you lose sleep that (derived from IMF/UN data) there are TODAY about 14.3 million slaves in India, 3.2 million slaves in China, 2.1 million slaves in Pakistan, 1.2 million slaves in Pakistan, 1 million slaves in Russia? Maybe you should.
Do you exonerate all worshippers of the monotheistic religions, which endorse slavery in their holy books, from being “intrinsically racist”?
When you suggest that one of us doesn’t give sufficient importance to considerations of racism, imperialism, nationalism, colonialism and slavery, I agree with you. We just disagree about which one of us that is.
Agreed that those lies were peddled. But not everyone bought them. I take it you believe that everyone that voted leave was a UKIP follower or thereabouts politically? I don’t. I don’t believe that the rhetoric in newspapers and TV is all that people are thinking about and acting upon. Leavers were predominantly in Labour stronghold, working class politically engaged people. You might want to step into a union local or a Momentum office and see what the discourse is like. You might try actual political engagement, I suspect you’d be surprised.
How do you know what I lose sleep over?
“Do you exonerate all worshippers of the monotheistic religions, which endorse slavery in their holy books, from being “intrinsically racist”?” No, when did I imply that? That includes christianity ICMYI.
You think historic slavery is over and that imperialism isn’t a continuation of the same practice? Who are those people slave to? Here’s a middle of the road, possibly maybe centre left newspaper that will tell you who.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2017/jan/14/aid-in-reverse-how-poor-countries-develop-rich-countries
No said > “I take it you believe that everyone that voted leave was a UKIP follower or thereabouts politically?”
Certainly many would think they are different. But I addressed the actual reasons I think people voted Brexit and invited you to tell me if I’d missed any.
No said > “How do you know what I lose sleep over?”
If I knew, I wouldn’t have asked.
Andi said > “Do you exonerate all worshippers of the monotheistic religions, which endorse slavery in their holy books, from being “intrinsically racist”?”
No said > “No, when did I imply that? That includes christianity ICMYI.”
A question does not suggest you implied anything – it’s just a question.
Christianity is only one of three of the main monotheistic religions: the other two are Islam and Judaism.
No said > “You might try actual political engagement, I suspect you’d be surprised.”
You might be surprised what I engage in. And you might also reconsider your assumptions that I live anywhere remotely in the locality of a Union or Momentum office.
Union with a small u. And I am genuinely sorry you can’t visit one. I found it edifying the first time I met someone from one of those. I’m an academic, all I ever meet are other academics like me, all drawn from a very narrow social strata. I shared most of the prejudices of this class against working class people, not after that experience,
You think I haven’t done a good enough job of explaining why people actually voted Brexit. I’ve tried, but perhaps failed. I’ll try again.
In a nutshell, there is a moral case for leaving the EU, not an economic one. Sometimes you have to do things that are economically difficult but morally right, cause well, they’re right.
The EU is an instrument of imperialism, it imposes its anti-democratic will on weaker nations within it like Greece & Spain. It brutally excludes non-EU members from entering the EU and it’s economy, after having previously exploited them for centuries and sometimes continuing to even now (France and its usurious extraction of African debt). While also exploiting and diminishing the economies and working people of weaker EU nations. Generally if you follow the money, it goes to Germany, so the EU is effectively an organ of German imperialism. It should not be supported by any right thinking person. Hence the leave vote…
I think this is going to be my last post. We’ve had a merry little time taking over the comments section here, I don’t think much will come of it. If you’d like to read, I’ve couple things that might further my point.
From a non-racist Brexiter: https://medium.com/@oliverhumpage/i-want-to-stop-something-exploitative-divisive-and-dishonest-conversation-with-a-leaver-af77afb1773f#.n45phgl5e
For further analysis of EU’s severe shortcomings in the moral domain: http://www.eurozine.com/beyond-the-brexit-debate/
Good luck and good night.
Thanks for the article!
Good article thanks for sharing …
I am really trying to feel sympathetic for the so-called EU academics for the situation they find themselves in but i really can’t, just because you are an academic why should you think you should have preferential treatment from the Home Office than say an ordinary non academic EU national or non EU national who find themselves in the same situation of having to apply for right to remain in the UK post. Your status as a so-called EU academic does not give you a different right than any other person applying to the Home Office. What about non EU nationals who have been facing these challenges for years and years with the Home Office, are you telling me that you should have preferential treatment over them to get your Home Office applications sorted. We all know that the Home Office has been a mess for decades and most of the times is really not equipped to face the challenge of processing all these applications never mind managing immigration effectively but the idea that so-called academic EU migrant should be treated better is appauling. Sometimes I find most of EU migrants moaning a bit rich considering that they come from some of the most racist and xenophobic societies on earth, a lot of polish or pretty much most of the Eastern Europe migrants are very racist and bigoted towards are races. Just look at refugees in the EU borders, are you East Europeans welcoming them with open arms, no you are not. So why then do you think Britain should welcome you with open arms when you are not welcoming other people to your country. I tend to think most Europeans are really confused about brits, brits in general have for decades been outward looking and never identified themselves with this European nationalism that is EU. So it’s hardly a surprise that thatvtheu voted to leave, everyone with any sense could see things coming following Blair’s open door policy to threat of the EU which has seen over 3 million EU migrant come to Britain thereby undercutting the locals by providing cheap Labour, put pressure on public resources i.e. schools, GPS housing etc. And you thought British people were just going to keep quiet and not rise up against the establishment who allowed that. I know I have totally gone off tangent from the main topic at hand which was the Home Office letters, but my main point here is really about EU nationals thinking they have better rights that non EU rights in this great land that many of you are morning about saying it’s changed for the worse, really if Britain is that bad are you you even moaning about applying for right to remain instead of leaving which is a right you are free to exercise. So instead of moaning and criticizing this country and its people that has done so much for Europe just leave and go. Britain is hardly going to collapse because a few So-called EU academics leave, we will just look to the Commonwealth which is what Britain had done for centuries. Really Britain doesn’t need the EU as much as the EU needs Britain, just look at the money Britain pays for membership which is quoted at 9 billion per year on some quotas and we the brits tax payers have to pay this to the EU.
I think just being able to read the headline will be enough…..
no its not
you can read again the article and understand it!
I suppose they’ll have to prove they have a job, maybe a particular class of job, maybe for a certain length of time, maybe prove some kind of arbitrary “settlement” condition…
So to put my point as bluntly as I can: Why is this a problem? This is how you treat all other immigrants. And how other countries treat all other immigrants too. Why should EU citizens be treated differently? It would be racist to treat them differently.
Hosein, to put my response as bluntly as I can… why didn’t you bother to read the comments already on this thread, where your question is already answered?
Thanks for the article.
‘what keeps universities running – academic staff’- I think you will find that ‘non-academic’ staff play a fairly major role in the running of Universities. Will non Uk EU citizens working as Bedders, Porters, Chefs etc. have to go through this shit too? Please include them in your protest.
You’re right. I agree.
I am not sure why so many EU nationals with academic positions could behave so irresponsibly. To be honest I arrived from a non-EU country and work very hard to obtain my British citizenship and in parallel my post-grad education. I recalled that my EU-work colleagues looked at me like I was some sort of pathetic idiot because I had to deal with all that administration drama, while they were simply able to waltz their way in and do whatever they want to do. In which world it is considered normal to purchase a house and raise your children without being a resident of that country? As for the question of EU academics leaving, I am not alarmed about that because young academics who got their education in the UK will be able to get assistant professor jobs without having to compete with some German professor who is happy to downgrade just so he/she could live in the UK. I do not think that the Home Office is at fault here. Politics change and Unions change, it is up to people to be smarter than a system and to not take their privileges for granted. I think the real fear here is that UK universities will have to put their very expensive degrees to the test and get a real sense for how well their students can do research. At the moment the attitude is like this: We do not care much about teaching our students, they are anyway stupid little idiots who have to pay us for our crappy courses and we can get away with this because we will always get a PhD student from abroad who went through the proper academic drill and we will then take the credit for his/her amazing research. In this way we can continuously be non-accountable for terrible teaching and still do great research. With the Brexit cutting the “brain supply” this will change and hence the article. It is not about poor little academics who are being bullied by the Home Office, it is about maintaining the current educational system despite the fact that it is not in the interest of British students. It is not normal that a British student has and average of 40,000 pounds debt and has to compete with a student from EU who has better degree and no debt. This really has to change.
Isn’t this taking matters too far? I thought Brexit was all about harmonizing the British economy. How does this help?
Imagine that after buying a car you receive a letter form the car manufacturer stating that you are not entitled to any form of guarantee as you did not match the intended sellers profile and are requested to hand the car back.
Something in writing has a legal status, send it error or not.
I think just being able to read the headline will be enough…
Something in writing has a legal status, send it error or not.
Imagine that after buying a car you receive a letter form the car manufacturer stating that you are not entitled to any form of guarantee as you did not match the intended sellers profile and are requested to hand the car back.
Sincerely yours
I disagree with your opinion
The first thing that struck me was the level of fear, anger and disgust – and in some cases resignation. I have disguised individual cases – that’s because few people are willing to speak openly, such is the degree of fear about what might happen after Brexit.
will change and hence the article. It is not about poor little academics who are being bullied by the Home Office, it is about maintaining the current educational system despite the fact that it is not in the interest of British students. It is not normal that a British student has and average of 40,000 pounds debt and has to compete with a student from EU who has better degree and no debt. This really has to change.
I suppose they’ll have to prove they have a job, maybe a particular class of job, maybe for a certain length of time, maybe prove some kind of arbitrary “settlement” condition…
So to put my point as bluntly as I can: Why is this a problem? This is how you treat all other immigrants. And how other countries treat all other immigrants too. Why should EU citizens be treated differently? It would be racist to treat them differently.
Response to the person calling themselves “حمیده گرگیج/کرم صورت /کرم دست /کرم آرایشی” (which isn’t a name, of course!)…
Because it’s illegal. Because the countries of other immigrants haven’t done a mutual exchange deal for free movement to their countries.
So you’re wrong to say it would be racist to treat them differently. That’s like going to the gym where you’re not a member, and saying, “Look how you’re letting all the Members in and not letting the non-Members in… that’s racist!”
Where do you come from? Which other-countries-citizens has it done a mutual exchange deal to allow to remain? Does it honour its agreements?
I suppose they’ll have to prove they have a job, maybe a particular class of job, maybe for a certain length of time, maybe prove some kind of arbitrary “settlement” condition…
So to put my point as bluntly as I can: Why is this a problem? This is how you treat all other immigrants. And how other countries treat all other immigrants too. Why should EU citizens be treated differently? It would be racist to treat them differentl
will change and hence the article. It is not about poor little academics who are being bullied by the Home Office, it is about maintaining the current educational system despite the fact that it is not in the interest of British students. It is not normal that a British student has and average of 40,000 pounds debt and has to compete with a student from EU who has better degree and no debt. This really has to change.
suppose they’ll have to prove they have a job, maybe a particular class of job, maybe for a certain length of time, maybe prove some kind of arbitrary “settlement” condition…
So to put my point as bluntly as I can: Why is this a problem? This is how you treat all other immigrants. And how other countries treat all other immigrants too. Why should EU
Do you mean we created the Syrian refugee crisis through our NON-intervention?
You say, “are you saying that there are no and have never been racist laws?” but you can’t hang every racist law that has ever existed upon the UK blatantly, illegally telling EU citizens “now make arrangements to leave”. You say, okay, they should get a lawyer like everybody else. They shouldn’t have to!! There is no case of doubt to argue. It’s a malicious act of the British Government.
suppose they’ll have to prove they have a job, maybe a particular class of job, maybe for a certain length of time, maybe prove some kind of arbitrary “settlement” condition…
So to put my point as bluntly as I can: Why is this a problem?
The first thing that struck me was the level of fear, anger and disgust – and in some cases resignation. I have disguised individual cases – that’s because few people are willing to speak openly, such is the degree of fear about what might happen after Brexit.
will change and hence the article. It is not about poor little academics who are being bullied by the Home Office, it is about maintaining the current educational system despite the fact that it is not in the interest of British students. It is not normal that a British student has and average of 40,000 pounds debt and has to compete with a student from EU who has better degree and no debt. This really has to change.
Actually it’s about the government breaking the law.
You say, “are you saying that there are no and have never been racist laws?” but you can’t hang every racist law that has ever existed upon the UK blatantly, illegally telling EU citizens “now make arrangements to leave”. You say, okay, they should get a lawyer like everybody else. They shouldn’t have to!! There is no case of doubt to argue. It’s a malicious act of the British Government.
I suppose they’ll have to prove they have a job, maybe a particular class of job, maybe for a certain length of time, maybe prove some kind of arbitrary “settlement” condition…
The first thing that struck me was the level of fear, anger and disgust – and in some cases resignation. I have disguised individual cases – that’s because few people are willing to speak openly, such is the degree of fear about what might happen after Brexit.
At the moment the attitude is like this: We do not care much about teaching our students, they are anyway stupid little idiots who have to pay us for our crappy courses and we can get away with this because we will always get a PhD student from abroad who went through the proper academic drill and we will then take the credit for his/her amazing research. In this way we can continuously be non-
You think I haven’t done a good enough job of explaining why people actually voted Brexit. I’ve tried, but perhaps failed. I’ll try again.
🙂
Actually it’s about the government breaking the law.
many are alarmed and some have already decided to leave – putting the expertise of Britain’s universities in serious jeopardy.
Imagine that after buying a car you receive a letter form the car manufacturer stating that you are not entitled to any form of guarantee as you did not match the intended sellers profile and are requested to hand the car back.
You say, “are you saying that there are no and have never been racist laws?” but you can’t hang every racist law that has ever existed upon the UK blatantly, illegally telling EU citizens “now make arrangements to leave”
Academic staff no longer feel welcome either
many are alarmed and some have already decided to leave – putting the expertise of Britain’s universities in serious jeopardy.
Academic staff no longer feel welcome either
Imagine that after buying a car you receive a letter form the car manufacturer stating that you are not entitled to any form of guarantee as you did not match the intended sellers profile and are requested to hand the car back.
that you are not entitled to any form of guarantee as you did not match the intended sellers profile and are requested to hand the car back.
This is appalling, but sadly not the first instance of such news. I find these reported cases deeply distressing, as I was always envisaging my future at an UK institution and have worked hard towards it for the last ten years.
What can we do to try to stop this sort of thing happening? Whatever people voted for this can’t have been what the majority of people wanted. I am very anxious for my friends from the EU and for my daughter and her generation
It’s quite weird that they rejected your application. You know if you legally live here for 10 years they should give you IRTS even when you are not working? Maybe EU citizen apply another rule but it should not be more difficult.
Anyway I would suggest you to appeal rather than apply again (which cost you more), I mean, it’s not like you need it, but why not appeal since you already pay for first time. They won’t give the money back to you.
I thought Brexit was all about harmonizing the British economy. How does this help?
I arrived at a meeting a couple of weeks ago and noticed one of my academic colleagues was visibly distressed.
what keeps universities running – academic staff’- I think you will find that ‘non-academic’ staff play a fairly major role in the running of Universities. Will non Uk EU citizens working as Bedders, Porters, Chefs etc. have to go through this shit too? Please include them in your protest.